It’s a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.
Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.
It’s no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it’s those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.
Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.
Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.
I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.
That was a mess.
Do you have any links? Not that I don’t believe you, I just can’t find anything on it and it seems very entertaining
This feels like the kind of thing I would watch a 2 hour long youtube deep dive video on, haha
Where is hbomberguy when the world needs him
Commiting war crimes against the letter h
I do have a Twitter account but for the life of me I can’t remember what the password is so I can’t actually see the responses, since apparently you need to sign in to see responses now, but if you do have Twitter you can see the responses here’s the link. https://x.com/jensimmons/status/1491064075987873792
Some nitter instances might work. This one did. Not a shitshow at all, especially as she didn’t say that “bug reports aren’t constructive feedback”
Everyone in my mentions saying Safari is the worst, it’s the new IE… Can you point to specific bugs & missing support that frustrate you, inhibit you making websites/apps. Bonus points for links to tickets. Specifics we can fix. Vague hate is honestly super counterproductive."
There’s plenty of bug reports in there and she’s behaving how I’d expect a developer to: by asking further questions and version use for stuff that should be fixed. Didn’t see any point where she lost her temper in any way
She refused to acknowledge the existence of issues and point-blank refused to fix existing bugs.
Claiming apple is the new internet explorer is only untrue in the sense that it understates the nature of the issue.
Safari is still a pain for frontend developers to deal with. At least IE6 was a static target and we were well aware of all the bugs. Some of the bugs and workarounds even had names, like the “peekaboo bug” and the Holly Hack".
Safari is a moving target that has so many bugs and issues that none of the other major browsers have.
I caught the tail end of IE6 webdev, but the idea was basically “let jquery figure it out”. Not too painful tbh.
Apple is not blameless but they are a shit-ton better than Microsoft. I have to have M$ for a few work apps but I’m primarily MacOS for desktop and Linux for everything server-side. I avoid M$ as much as possible.
I agree. But everyone acts like Apple’s shit doesn’t stink.
Don’t forget the fact they’re locked onto luxury hardware, and you can’t build your own flavor for it. Even worse is, notebook manufacturers copied them so much there’s less variations among them. I was looking for some “subnotebook” as a potential portable PC, but I had like a few options (many of which would have included AliExpress junk), but there’s an endless supply of same-looking 14-16" ones, that are thin (“real” portability according to techbros), lightweight, “desktop replacements”, and run at a constant 95°C.
Yeah, the main takeaway here is “Apple Bad”
The main takeaway of this article about Microsoft’s horrible decisions is “Apple bad”? OS flame wars really haven’t gotten less ridiculous in the past decades…
I was making a sarcastic response to the comment above mine and its chain, which devolved mindlessly into “Apple bad” as things tend to when Apple is mentioned.
No it’s that Linux is good
Ya, a PR nightmare for the next 15 minutes until the next unbelievable thing comes along and the ADD nature of people forgets windows is watching everything they do.
As expected, there is no evidence that this is “the straw that broke the camel’s back”. Don’t waste your time reading this article.
MS has been doing this kind of shit for decades and their market share has never changed significantly.
Was it stupid? Yeah. Are people upset? Sure. Is anyone going to do anything about it? No, because the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago.
I’m using windows 11 and after hearing about recall and all the other shit they’ve done, I’ve finally decided to make the jump to Linux
So for atleast me, this was the final straw
I both agree and disagree. I agree that there isn’t going to be a single ‘straw’, because everyone’s thresholds are different. For me it was back when Microsoft auto-upgraded my PC to Win 8, which was also when they started putting in hard-to-disable telemetry and bad UI. It sounds like Recall is the threshold for some other people.
Also don’t discount that MS’ market share is dominated by a ton of corporate users (who lack a choice) and casual users (who don’t care / are unaware), but at least anecdotally they’ve been losing the power users in my life, which if true in general which will have negative downstream effects for them moving forward (IT departments working to support alternatives, software developers refusing to build on Windows Server / MS software stack, etc.)
For at least 3 decades. That’s twice more than the time between Second Boer War and WWI. That’s the time between the start of WWII and the initial versions of Unix. Or between the initial versions of Unix and Start Wars the Phantom Menace. More than between the original Star Wars and the Phantom Menace.
the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago
It’s a little disingenuous to claim people should’ve stopped using something that hasn’t come to market yet. I was looking for other options when they started trying to force me to upgrade to Windows 11, but this absolutely is the last straw that I won’t use Windows on my next computer.
I just read they decided to default it to off. They should remove it entirely imo, but with this move, it costs IT departments $0 and 0 hours of their time to worry about.
I think business + government + education usage is more important for them than personal, and as long as this costs them nothing, I doubt it makes a dent in anyone’s plans. Could have been an apocalypse if defaulted to on though.
I’m telling everyone I know it’s time to move to Linux, or worst case Mac.
I have down-voted this because in a worst case scenario, they should move to a less appealing version of Linux, like Arch
(waiting for my down-votes)
Mac is not better in any circumstance. Except maybe power efficiency but I doubt that’s going to last for long.
MacOS is a highly mature, stable, and user-friendly OS that, at least for now, Apple does not meddle with in the same ways that MS has been doing with Windows. It has its problems, yes, but to say “any circumstance” is extreme. I don’t like or agree with everything that Apple has done to MacOS but at least Apple isn’t actively trashing it into the ground with forced bloat, ads, malware, etc like MS is doing.
They are definitely are starting to trash it with ads for their own services, user hostile behavior/dark patterns (try turning off Bluetooth and applying a software update, it will be magically back on), and have ruined the UI slowly turning it in to iOS.
I have used a Mac since 2007 (almost exclusively for work) and many of Apple’s services during that time. I have not experienced any ads as you describe. As for Bluetooth magically turning back on after a software update, of course I do not know for certain, but that screams incompetence more than it screams intent. Apple most definitely has problems (where they build their hardware, policies they tried to enact and then backtracked, etc). And I’m not advocating for them like I am for Linux and other open source solutions. But if a normal user doesn’t want to deal with some of the lingering complexities that Linux still has (which is a dwindling number), then a Mac is a relatively viable alternative and it does not come anywhere near as close to the privacy nightmare that Microsoft has become.
I am not tribal at all with respect to any of these entities. I have used all three OSes for the better part of 25 years. I have watched the ebbs and flows of Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, Canonical, Red Hat, and various FOSS solutions such as Linux, for a very long time. And I have had a front row seat seeing Apple’s mistakes, Microsoft’s mistakes, Canonical’s mistakes, and so forth. And I feel I can judge with some semblance of realism and objectivity – Microsoft has failed so hard with Recall and they are so out of touch with what users want, they deserve every bit of ire they are getting, and they deserve to have their market share diminish because of it. Aside from perhaps Google, and now Adobe, I haven’t seen a technology company be so blatantly and willfully aggressive (and one could say, stupid) when it comes to these actions and topics.
The Bluetooth issue also happens on iOS, so I think it is an explicit choice, as Apple wants as many devices contributing to their Find My Network. It’s also the reason they changed control center on iOS to no longer turn off Wifi and Bluetooth, but to disconnect the current connections.
I’ve not run into this, but I also use Bluetooth on both devices (my work Mac and my personal phone) so it’s usually enabled. I also rely on Find My capabilities, so I suppose I’m their target audience. However, if they are purposefully re-enabling even after a user explicitly disables, then I agree completely that that is anti-user/anti-consumer/anti-privacy and they should be brought to task for it.
Lmao nice
You might want to add the /s tho, some people might not get it.
I’m telling everyone I know
Vegan, European, CrossFit, Linux, born again
Seeing “European” is all you need to know this is rage bait
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How many times do people need to get fucked over by privatized black box software before they realize that FOSS has a point?
Just like people who are beholden to their politics or their religion, they’ll get fucked over as often as possible until they’re dead. The majority of people are tribal and sadly they see Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc as some kind of extension of their tribal identity.
I don’t know what this post means… but I want to learn.
Are you Vegan and moved to Europe and now do CrossFit?
That actually sounds like fun.
Especially the linux part.
Did you flee from a country that was awful and move to somewhere in Europe?
Helping people to prevent their privacy from being completely screwed isn’t the same as feeling superior and smug about one’s choices, lifestyle, or where one lives. The sooner people understand the difference, the better.
But sure.
I also use Arch, btw…got any “witty” response to it?
it isn’t a nightmare for them. they will be fine. they normalize everything they do
Yeah like I hate Microsoft, I am migrating to Linux, and the things I read about recall were pretty fucking horrifying to me. At the end of the day though the general public doesn’t give two shits about tech other than it works out of the box.
I use Arch since 2009 (BTW), but I think I’m planted in reality enough to know that the average user not only doesn’t care, hasn’t even heard about it. This will not even move the needle regarding usage.
Absolutely, the only thing that will ever move the needle significantly is if the average user walks into a store and comes out with a system that has linux already installed.
All I want from an Os is to launch my programs of choice and not suck up my battery running unnecessary junk I couldn’t care less about.
You can only piss on our faces and tell us it is raining for so long.
“It’s raining, I see” says the blind man as he pisses into the wind
Pfffttt, Microsoft has been there, done this, and got a whole closet full of tee shirts for stuff like this many times over the years. In the end the users don’t care and can’t stop it. And they are, by in large, too lazy to change to something else to completely avoid it.
It hasn’t ever affected the bottom line enough to matter to them. They will just pull this
bugfeature and wait for a better day. Or perhaps they will figure out a way to introduce it piecemeal to disguise it better.My problem is my work provided pc. Will I know when they enable this?
Ideally i’ll resign before that happens.
Just think they might go from owning 98% of the market to 97% of the market. I am sure this is a nightmare for them.
You just wait and see. I’ll bet it goes all the way down to 96 and then they’ll really be sorry.
Year of the Linux destktop!
MS’s frequent missteps - win11, total recall, ai inescapable etc., - may just finally catch up with them. While they continue to devour game studios and shut them down for irrational reasons, who knows?
Stop being so negative and open your mind. Hell, MS did, you can use bash on the command line now. Times do change.
Gradual shifts can snowball into huge shifts. a few years ago Linux gaming only existed for the dedicated crowd, that somehow managed to make it work. Now for many it is no different from their Windows experience for most games, sometimes even better.
Think of it like bubbles pressing against each other. It matters not only how much pressure your own bubble has, but also how much pressure the other bubbles have in finding the equilibrium. The Windows bubble isn’t only weakening itself, the Linux bubble is getting stronger and stronger
For me, gaming was the one thing holding me back from really adopting Linux. When I got a PS5, I felt the time was right to make the switch, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find pretty much my whole Steam library works fine on Linux. VR still doesn’t work for me, but it seems to be getting there.
There is still a lot of googling and frustration involved in using and maintaining it, but I’m slowly learning through exposure. There is nothing I want to do on a PC any more that I need windows for. If the auto update stuff worked better, I’d probably recommend it to everyone. But I’ve tried both Mint and Ubuntu and the software updater constantly runs into issues very quickly after install. I’m guessing because of all the different ways to install software, but I can’t understand why it doesn’t just apt update/upgrade behind the scenes because that seems to work just fine.
But I’ve tried both Mint and Ubuntu and the software updater constantly runs into issues very quickly after install.
I have a Blue-Build based custom distro (not many customisations tbh), that I’m planning to ship for my sister as well as me. So far, updates have been painless because it’s just one base image overwriting the other. I have a feeling that that’s where Linux distros in general is headed. I can imagine Bazzite being just right for you if you’re into gaming.
Primarily I use my Linux box for development, but I do like to game on the PC from time to time. And then also I like to connect to oculus for SteamVR. I haven’t been able to do that since I got off windows. Yeah, I could dual boot or whatever, but I just don’t want to.
I’ll look into Bazzite because maybe I can move my kids’ computer to Linux as well. They do nothing but game/discord on theirs.
i assume you mean that sarcastically but that is a nightmare for them and every bit of lost marketshare makes it easier to lose more
Hey, if it makes some SVP not get their quarterly bonus then maybe we’ll see a marginal change for sex months! Maybe!
This is status quo for every large corporation. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM, Roku… They all, ALL, push boundaries to see what they can get away with to not only sell you something, but also make you the thing they sell. Sometimes they’re bold enough to make it public what they’re doing, sometimes, it’s a leak that happens when people find out how little the company actually cares about it’s users (Apple, so many user data leaks).
I love it when Apple pushes advertising that touts their focus on privacy… when in reality, they’re breaching user privacy in all the ways that every other company does.
A big reason Apple focuses on privacy and apps not being able to track the user is because they want to keep all that data for themselves. None of the restrictions they’ve introduced apply to first-party apps. It gives them ad targeting data that no other company can collect. They do have their own ad network (for things like ads in the App Store), and last I heard, they wanted to expand it.
My bigger concern is that almost every company now has it in their contracts/terms of services, that all users are not allowed to participate in a lawsuit, be it class action, or court case against them Most of them even have a maximum sue limit too! There’s a lot that have a rule that initial arbitration cannot have a lawyer, but that won’t be enforced.
Is that a valid and enforceable clause though, even if i clicked “i agree”?
It should be illegal to include unenforceable clauses in any TOS or contract since it deceitfully implies it means something.
Should be, yes. I’m pretty sure it’s not in the US though. It’s pretty common here.
Of course not. But it won’t stop them from trying or spending billions on legal fees to avoid paying out a tiny fraction of that.
No.
Sorry, this may be unpopular, but software license click-through agreements are enforceable.
Source: I’m not a lawyer, but worked in a software contracts office with lawyers, so some of it ruined off. Essentially your legal options are, use the software according to the license agreement, or don’t use the software.
A third option would be, I guess, use open source software so you don’t deal with that bullshit.
Edit: Part of it is wrapped up in the Uniform Commercial Code, which is a whole bundle of standard laws which is quite complex. Basically you pays your money, and you get a thing, but there are all sports of knobs and levers to handle every contingency. You can nope out of the transaction, but you don’t get the thing.
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Maybe?
Again, I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve read a lot of EULAs.
However, to challenge that, your have to sue Microsoft, against their team of super-lawyers, the best that Microsoft could buy. And you’d have to do it in the jurisdiction started in the license agreement, which is undoubtedly friendly to Microsoft. And you’d have to have some sort of standing, meaning you have suffered some actual damage from the thing you arguing against, and that you want remedied. So you sue for damages, but it can only be for the amount that you were actually damaged, which is problematic - especially for free Microsoft software. But for paid software, I’m sure there’s a return/refund clause which would make you whole.
And you are paying your own lawyer to Microsoft, right? How long do you plan to sue Microsoft? I guarantee they have deeper pockets than you, and can outlast you in court. And remember if you lose the lawsuit, you will probably be countersued for the cost of their lawyers.
Basically the EULAs are written by Microsoft’s very expensive lawyers. Other corporations cower in fear of Microsoft’s lawyers; I know the ones in my office did. And the rewards you’d get would be a Pyrrhic victory at best. “Do you feel lucky, punk?”
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Outside of the “Microsoft bad” comments, this is a prime example of why big tech companies need to stop promoting AI leads to a position where they are able to have influence over initiatives outside of AI.
The worst thing to happen to basically every product/service in tech right now is AI. It’s made Google unreliable in the eyes of normal people for the first time in decades, it’s destroying trust in Amazon content across reviews and Kindle, it’s adding features to Facebook that no one ever wanted, etc.
I don’t want to be the guy that always says Linux, but… …Linux
It is okay to be the person that always recommends Linux, especially if you are a kind person with the patience to explain things to people in approachable terms (and you don’t just scream at people SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH whenever a newbie walks in the door and asks the obvious questions a newbie would ask).
Now is the time, Linux is pulled up out front waiting to pick us up (with bags packed) and Microsoft is loudly shitting the bed upstairs, NOW is the time to walk straight out the front door, jump in the car with Linux and never look back. We owe it to Microsoft’s long relationship with consumers to leave Microsoft sitting confused on the porcelain throne wondering why they were abandoned and where all the toilet paper is (we are the toilet paper in this metaphor).
SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH
I don’t understand this approach, if you don’t want to answer, just don’t answer. Why would you waste time writing that you won’t answer?
I will not answer this. Just search.
I thought you were a search engine.
Most people aren’t going to bother when the specific software they want to use aren’t supported.
Microsoft has been relying on that for >20 years now and it’s starting to show signs of strain.
I’ve heard this before.
So you don’t think there’s a straw breaking the camel’s back?
I think people are happy to eat shit. They’ll complain about it, sure. But they’ll slurp it up like ice cream.
Otherwise, MTX heavy games wouldn’t be rewarded so heavily.
Early on, you’ll see some movement. Some people will transfer to Linux - most will go back. A bunch of outraged threads.
But it will die down. People will just accept it. They always do. They always will.
But it will die down. People will just accept it. They always do. They always will.
I understand the frustration and cynicism that comes from wanting something to happen and waiting a good stretch of your life for it to do so but I am sorry, this is not reflective of reality.
Don’t mistake your own fatigue for the behavior of people in general.
Support for software on Linux or Wine is now orders of magnitude more complete and functional than it was 5-10 years ago. There are fundamental changes going on, just because we operated in a paradigm that suffocated the possibility of Linux adoption in the past doesn’t mean that paradigm will continue indefinitely.
There is a difference between being permanently powerless and being powerless under a certain arrangement of forces and actors.
We are entering a period of the status quo being smashed for better or worse in almost every dimension of our lives, what was likely to happen in the past 20 years does not reliably predict what is likely to happen in the next 20 years.
There is actually a true opening for Linux here in a way there never has been.
Well they said the same about AI and at some point it became true enough to be a problem
I’m trying to see a correlation.
True but there is less and less stuff that you cannot do properly on linux.
I mean… how big really is the category of software tasks that you can’t properly do on Linux in 2024? I feel like it is getting to the point where you do genuinely have to be specific about what Linux can’t do that is a dealbreaker for you rather than just falling back on “Linux can’t do what people need to do” as a general criticism of it.
Windows can’t do what people need it to do, and it fails to do so while sucking up your private data (which if you work at a business with confidential information IS a dealbreaker). At least when Linux fails it usually isn’t simultaneously violating the IT security structure of your organization….
The funny thing is businesses and government entities can’t even claim with a straight face that they can trust Microsoft to adhere to the meager insufficient data privacy laws that do exist when there is zero evidence Microsoft would behave that way based on the track record even if the financial penalties for failing to do so were actually real to the ruling class and not just theoretical thought experiments that involve a slap on the wrist or more like a light tickling with a feather on the nose.
Oh i totally agree with you. I have a feeling that the only real obstacle on the way out from windows is proprietary software, especially adobe and some custom apps for specific hardware.
HISTTIMEFORMAT="%d/%m/%y %T "
Then
history | grep -i “09/06/2024”
Yeah but there’s like 20 of them, and many are half-baked. How is a n00b to choose one?
Ubuntu is fine for all uses, and so are some of the others
Not sure about that. They try to get you to sign up for services, and they deliberately broke something with installing from certain file types.
It’s still perfectly functional and easy to use, just say no if they ask you to sign up to a service, if you come from windows you’ll ve surprised of how easy it is to dismiss those offers
Gamers will literally install root kits on their PCs just because an update pop up tells them to. They really don’t care lol.
I mean 95% of their customers probably don’t care or even know what Recall is but…
TL;DR:
- Windows Recall, part of Microsoft’s new Copilot+ PC initiative, has sparked major privacy and security concerns.
- The feature uses AI to capture and store screen data locally, allowing users to search for past activities using natural language.
- Despite assurances that data is not uploaded to the cloud or used by Microsoft, user trust is lacking.
- Microsoft has a history of practices that have eroded user trust, including obtrusive ads, ignoring user preferences, and requiring Microsoft Accounts.
- Users are skeptical, fearing future misuse of the collected data for advertising or AI training.
- Windows Recall reportedly stores data unencrypted, making it vulnerable to access by third-party apps and potential malware.
- The open nature of Windows amplifies these risks, unlike more secure systems like iOS and Android.
- Users have compared Windows Recall to spyware, with many threatening to switch to other operating systems like Linux or Mac.
- Microsoft’s attempts to keep the development of Windows Recall secret did not help build trust.
- Windows Recall will only be available on new Copilot+ PCs, requiring specific hardware not present in existing PCs.
- Users will have the option to disable the feature, but there are concerns about it being enabled by default.
- Despite security issues, the feature is effective in helping users find lost or forgotten data.
- It could improve productivity if trust and security concerns are resolved.
Windows Recall does NOT require NPU hardware to run. Currently Recall has been tested on Windows 11 with only a CPU and it seems to be fully operational. Of course performance is not as good as with an NPU. I believe Microsoft will try to push AI to local computing by only enabling on computers with NPUs to begin with. In the future it will most likely be able to be enabled on PCs which does not have an NPU but with a warning of bad performance in front of it.
In the future most CPU’s will prolly have an NPU built in. We already seeing it with ryzen
